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Victor version 4.0
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 1 April 2008 01:36 pm |
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| http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120692909065176045.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
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Synicalchick
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 2 April 2008 12:09 pm |
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| This is a good article
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mollymoo24
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 30 December 2007 |
| Location: | Chicago, USA |
| Posts: | 6290 |
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Posted: 4 April 2008 07:36 pm |
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This article makes me want to vomit. I am sorry to disrespect anyone's personal decision, but this procedure introduces grave personal risk at a high cost to society all for the fact that people cannot or will not control what they put in their mouths?
Let's put society's resources into fixing poverty, education and welfare, stop wasting resources GROWING and eating TOO MUCH FOOD and get our fat rear ends onto the treadmill. We are lucky to live in countries where starvation is not an every day concern. Spending $15-$40K on this procedure is wasteful, shameful. And there are thousands of people doing this. The Pharmaceutical companies are selling you a quick fix instead of learning the necessary self-control to make a real, permanent, healthy lifestyle change.
I am sure my remarks are going to be hurtful to some and I am sorry to hurt anyone. But please oh please, just put your forks down, go for a walk and donate $25K to charity instead.
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Nir
Senior Administrator
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Posted: 4 April 2008 08:00 pm |
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One interesting side-effect of having lap-band surgery is that with your reduced stomach capacity you would presumably not be able to comply with Dr Fuhrman's suggestion of eating a minimum of one pound of raw and one pound of cooked (non-starchy) vegetables per day, and so be unable to receive optimal protection from diseases like cancer and heart disease. (thinking about it though, I guess you might be able to eat enough vegetables if you chose to juice them?)
mollymoo, I think the argument in the article (if I understood it correctly) is that it would make sense for the insurance company to pay for the surgery because it would save them money (compared to the money they'd have to pay to manage the obesity-related disease costs). I might be wrong...
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Peter
Founder, caloriesperhour.com
| Joined: | 24 May 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 4178 |
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Posted: 5 April 2008 12:05 am |
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My understanding of the valid use of surgery was to use it only on people who could not accomplish weight loss by any other means. It is better than an early death.
My fear is that it will become a more commonplace solution, and people will turn to it as an easy way out.
What's always puzzled me is the point that you have to eat in a very particular way after surgery, so why not do that beforehand and not have the surgery at all. I believe the answer is that the surgery forces you to eat less. Though you still have to make healthy selections or you can still put on weight.
Peter
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Synicalchick
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 5 April 2008 04:04 am |
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I believe the answer is that the surgery forces you to eat less. Though you still have to make healthy selections or you can still put on weight
That would be correct Peter. This procedure forces you to eat less but you still have to exercise self control as to WHAT you eat.
Everyone of course is going to have their opinions. If only it was that easy to 'Put your fork down and get our fat A$$es to the treadmill'. It's not that simple. For some of us, food is an addiction but unlike alcohol or drugs, we can't quit food cold turkey.. we still have to eat. People that do not have a food addiction problem could not understand, just like I don't understand why some people can't just not drink alcohol. It's not that simple & it makes me sad if not a little offended or mad when others are so judgemental or down on those of us who have tried like hades to put the fork down but can't seem to control ourselves.
I physically cannot over eat. I have slowly and responsably lost over 80 pounds in just over a year and continue to do so. This time when I lose because I chose the band option, I won't gain it back.. some ask.. well if it's not permenant, you can take it out when you lose all your weight right? Well Yes, I could, but, I love food and I'm a food addict, so there is no way I'm taking it out. If the band ever wears out, I'll have it replaced. If others feel that my way of taking charge of my life and health is a waste of money, then so be it, I cannot nor do I wish to change your mind. I just hope that if those who point fingers at us fatties who are to lazy to 'just get on the treadmil' are ever weak in anyother part of their life whether it be a physical weakness or spiritual, that others around them will have a little more compassion and tolerance toward them than they show others.
Kudos to you that have the stamina and will power to control yourselves and do it all on your own. I am not fortunate to be one of those people
Peace out
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Peter
Founder, caloriesperhour.com
| Joined: | 24 May 2005 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 4178 |
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Posted: 5 April 2008 04:47 am |
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Thanks for your post Synicalchick.
I see you've been with us for over two years now! You've been a valuable contributor to the forums, and been amazingly candid in your sharing of your journey with us.
I'm sure you've helped countless understand more about the struggle we go through, and not feel so alone. And as well you've helped us understand the role surgery can play in helping those who will truly benefit from it.
Peter
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Beth
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 7 April 2008 08:01 pm |
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This was such a wonderful post. I haven't had any electricity for three days. No internet. A little snowflake tv. Pretty much cut off from everything. Hubby and I pretty much got along, despite all. My addiction to adrenalin is even more powerful than my addiction to food, so it was nice to see someone ELSE stirring it up. Things have just been too quiet at my place!
I, too, am a fattie. I had 80 lbs to lose and I am on my way without surgery by simply trying to replace bad habits with some good ones. There were plenty of warning signs my fat was killing me. Sleep apnea, breathing problems, aching body, blood pressure, you know the drill. They were showing themselves and I was not listening. Thank God I got the message and started trying to do something noninvasive before it was too late. I am too poor and too much of a chicken to go for surgery and I really don't want to die yet.
My thanks to all for contributing to this forum - whatever you contribute! Victor, you are an inspiration. You are a success miracle. Nir and Peter, many, many thanks. You do a wonderful job. I am so thankful for this forum! MM, you are my good buddy with a lot of weight (excuse the pun) on your shoulders right now and handling it like a trooper. Chickie, keep on doing what you have to do to get there. I might not take your particular path, but I respect you for doing what you have to do to survive.
A good day to you all!
Beth
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mollymoo24
Distinguished Member
| Joined: | 30 December 2007 |
| Location: | Chicago, USA |
| Posts: | 6290 |
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Posted: 8 April 2008 12:37 am |
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Synicalchick, I appreciate you speaking up and contributing your personal experience to this discussion. I do not doubt that there are others like you and I respect your perspective.
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Synicalchick
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 8 April 2008 03:13 pm |
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Thanks MollyMoo I do appreciate that.
Have a good'n
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lapbandlover
New Member
| Joined: | 3 August 2008 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 3 August 2008 11:59 pm |
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Hey, I'm new to the forums but I had to reply to this message. It made me sick and is so ridiculous. I'm not obese but I really believe there are numerous ways to make America lighter and healthier.
O.K. The following quote from mollymoo24 angered me so much and is ignorance at its finest:
This article makes me want to vomit. I am sorry to disrespect anyone's personal decision, but this procedure introduces grave personal risk at a high cost to society all for the fact that people cannot or will not control what they put in their mouths? Let's put society's resources into fixing poverty, education and welfare, stop wasting resources GROWING and eating TOO MUCH FOOD and get our fat rear ends onto the treadmill. We are lucky to live in countries where starvation is not an every day concern. Spending $15-$40K on this procedure is wasteful, shameful. And there are thousands of people doing this. The Pharmaceutical companies are selling you a quick fix instead of learning the necessary self-control to make a real, permanent, healthy lifestyle change. I am sure my remarks are going to be hurtful to some and I am sorry to hurt anyone. But please oh please, just put your forks down, go for a walk and donate $25K to charity instead.
Are you kidding me? Do you think people want to be morbidly obese? Sure, the average overweight person of ~50lbs or less can diet and exercise. But once you've reached morbid obese categories, it is VERY rare to lose the weigh.
Now the real reason it angers me so much is the ignorance within the statement. We are spending $15-$40K on the surgery that should be donated to charity and "just put your forks down". ARE YOU KIDDING ME? No more surgery for cardiac disease because it's also caused by diet and SMOKING. No more lung cancer operations because all you had to do was PUT DOWN THE CIGARETTES. No more gallbladder operations as they are often caused by dietary habits. If you're obese and have diabetes or hypertension, we will withold any medications because if you just put your fork down then it will improve. No more trauma operations on anyone that "caused it themselves". No more procedures of any type involving the liver if you ever drank alcohol. Quit taking care of HIV/AIDS victims because they brought it on themselves from their homosexuality.
Is my point made? I mean, we have got to get out of this biased mindset in American against the morbidly obese. It's brutal and a sad commentary. If a surgeon can help you from dying early (and it's a proven fact that morbid obesity exponentially increases your risk of a premature death) then I say thank God above.
It's NOT the easy way out. Not by far. Because it doesn't make it magically easy. It's simply a tool for these people to finally get them into a more healthy range. It provides a restriction and more importantly satiety that they so desperately need. They have to make good dietary decisions after the band or they will pay for it.
Sure, should you do diet and exercise? ABSOLUTELY. But dying at age 50 because there were a group of people who ridiculed you for considering an operation and therefore you continued to try (and fail) at diet and exercise and lose the battle is absurd.
I have no connections with morbid obesity surgery except for knowing people that it has helped tremendously. I just want people to quit being so negatively biased toward obesity and the avenues to which they achieve health.
Open mind, open heart. Healthcare expenditures are 90% caused by our choices but why is morbid obesity different? Why? Because the TV tells you so.
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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 4 August 2008 04:46 am |
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As someone who has been morbidly obese, I would like to share my opinion on the matter.
First of all, I agree that there is a stigma attached to obesity that is not always accurate. Not everyone who is obese is unhappy, nor is every obese person a binge eater.
However, take a look at your other examples, lapbandlover. People can reduce their risk of lung cancer by quitting smoking. Likewise, people can reduce their risk of liver cancer by refraining from alcohol consumption. I have yet to meet one single person who could not lose weight from proper diet and exercise. In all of the above examples, it takes willpower.
People are typically obese for one of two reasons:
A.) They like the lifestyle that permits them to be obese, and have no desire to change it.
B.) They want to change, but lack the motivation to do so.
I became morbidly obese because I lacked the motivation to change. I did not believe I was worth the effort. I thought I was worthless, and that nothing could ever change that. I still struggle with feelings like these, and they are not apt to go away any time soon. However, I am trying. I want to feel like somebody, like I'm normal, and I want it to be for myself, not for anybody else. That takes time, effort, and an unbelievable amount of willpower.
Yes, your life expectancy goes up as you lose weight, but if you haven't found something worth living for, it's a useless endeavor. I live for my mother, sister and nephew, who need me, who I can provide a good quality of life for. If they weren't in the picture, I would probably already have ended it. Everyone needs something to fight for - something worth bettering yourself for.
I agree with Molly, though, that many people do this to take the easy way out, or rather what they think is the easy way. There is also a fine line between doing some for the sake of your health and doing it for cosmetic reasons.
Food addiction is a very serious addiction, just like smoking, alcohol drinking, etc. However, there is a factor to consider - it doesn't all have to be overcome at once, nor do you have to stop eating foods that you like.
As far as the surgery goes, it is something I have considered, but decided against. To each their own.
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lapbandlover
New Member
| Joined: | 3 August 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
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Posted: 4 August 2008 12:44 pm |
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I'm in agreement that people can quit smoking and quit alcohol and reduce their risks of lung and liver problems. But that's my point, we don't really tell these people that they're wasting money when they have to get a liver or lung operation and that they should just give it to charity. Insurance/medicare provide no barriers for those people to get the care they need but we have another option for obesity and there are barriers everywhere.
I'm just saying that if it were more accepted, more people would get it and be thinner. Maybe in 20 years I'll be wrong about all of this but it just strikes me as odd that obese people are biased against other obese people for doing something that they would not do.
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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 4 August 2008 03:58 pm |
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There is a slight difference between cancer operations and procedures such as gastric banding. If you have cancer, then you have an issue which is immediately life-threatening. Obesity lowers life expectancy by about 5-7 years. Unless you are already in your 60's or 70's, people still usually have plenty of time to correct it. There are also people in that age group who are still able to and do correct it.
The main thing here is that while obesity is considered a disease, it is not life-threatening in and of itself. Rather, it makes you more likely to develop life-threatening conditions. It is more of a risk factor than it is a disease. Your risk of heart disease goes up significantly when you are obese, but people of normal weight get heart disease all the time.
I sympathize with people who have legitimately tried but have not been able to stick with it long term for whatever reason. However, in my opinion, this is more commonly due to mental and emotional problems than physical ones. Surgery does not correct the issues in your mind.
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Another Day
New Member
| Joined: | 26 July 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 14 |
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Posted: 12 August 2008 07:41 pm |
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I know I am late on responding to this thread, but here goes anyway...
Back in March 1997 I had the stomach staple surgery done. While it was great for a few years, I almost regret it now. I lost 1/2 my weight, then got reintroduced to foods I should have avoided, and I started gaining it back. I ended up gaining back all but about 70 of the pounds I lost. I kept telling myself that it was cool, cause the surgeon told me that if I could lose 100 pounds and keep it off, the surgery would be a success! I was close to that, so cool. WRONG! I was back to morbidly obese (if I even ever left it) and almost back to square one.
I feel that the biggest thing about these surgeries is that they do not prepare you for what is to come. Nor do they really touch the true issue(s) of why you are over weight. I honestly believe that if I had had any kind of counseling as to why I am overweight (I am a food addict, plain and simple) I wouldn't be the weight I am today. I got none of that, so here I am. I am not blaming anyone for this, I take responsibility for my actions, however, I was never educated.. just sliced and diced.
A friend of my wife and I had the lapband surgery done last September. Since then he has lost 185 pounds and looks amazing. This really makes me want to do it. Thinking it might just be that 2nd chance I have been looking for. Then again I have lost 83 pounds this year on my own, so would it be worth it? I go back and forth on it. If I do choose to do it, I know that I am mentally prepared for it because of what I have gone through in the past year, let alone since March 1997.
Bottom line... these surgeries are not a cure, they are a stepping stone. They have to be looked upon as just 1 of the many things someone needs to do to be able to lose the weight they carry and get back to being healthy. If they aren't viewed that way, I fear that most people will fail... later if not sooner.
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CrimsonAnimus
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 12 August 2008 08:24 pm |
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Very well-written post, kedogn. Bravo!
By losing 83 pounds this year on your own, you've proven to yourself that you have what it takes to lose! Only you can decide if surgery is best for you, but my advice to you is DON'T DO IT!
You acknowledge that you have to make lifestyle changes to keep the weight off. The only real difference here is time. Yes, by losing it the right way, it will take you longer. But when you get down to your goal weight, you will be able to look back and see where you have come from, along with the changes you have made along the way.
Allow me to share a bit of my own experience with you...
My weight-loss journey is a new experience for me. I have never devoted this much energy or time to my health. In the past, I just didn't care about it, or much about myself, for that matter.
My family and I had discussed surgery for me, and I have considered it. However, losing weight the right way has been an educational journey for me, also. I have made lifestyle changes over the course of time that will help me to keep the weight off once I reach my goal. If I had broken down and went the surgery route, I would have been near my ideal weight with no personal insight on how to maintain it.
A weight-loss journey is a huge endeavor, one that involves so much more than just losing weight. It also requires working on the mind. Mental and emotional changes do not just come overnight. Giving yourself the time to lose weight the right way gives you time to develop good habits.
You are worth it, so do it the right way! Best of luck to you in whatever you decide. 
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canadacalories
New Member
| Joined: | 16 August 2010 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
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Posted: 18 August 2010 09:26 am |
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| Gastric amalgamation is a akin blazon of weight accident surgery. In a nutshell, it involves agreement a silicone bandage with an inflatable close collar about the high abdomen to bind aliment intake. This creates a baby accessory and a attenuated access to the lower stomach. This baby access delays the elimination of aliment from the accessory and causes a activity of fullness. The silicone bandage can be anchored or alone over time to change the admeasurement of the passage.
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olfea
Past Member
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Posted: 8 November 2010 05:21 am |
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it's the same thing with plastic surgeries as you're undergoing a procedure for cosmetic purposes only. you have to check with your physician if you're fit for the surgery otherwise look for other methods that may work on your end. try reading more about gastric bypass surgery LINK REMOVED so you can study the method first before deciding if it's right for  you.
Last edited on 8 November 2010 07:17 am by
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Pauline3
New Member
| Joined: | 4 February 2010 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 6 |
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Posted: 17 December 2010 02:13 pm |
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| I don't think a lot of people realise just how dangerous such surgery can be. I really feel it should only be used when the patient has exhausted all other avenues. Gastric bands are being carried out at an ever increasing rate. Celebrities are fuelling the rise and promoting it as a lose weight quick option.
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Synicalchick
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 17 December 2010 06:45 pm |
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| Just a note. The band is not the "Quick Weight Loss" surgery. It's actually much slower. The quick one is the gastric bypass. With the band you lose about 1-2 lbs per week or less depending on if you exercise with you. you also don't have the malabsorption issues with the band that you have with the bypass.
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AshIdiot
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 December 2010 02:04 am |
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| I was flipping channels and a doctor (everyone's a doctor on tv, am I right?) said that with weight-loss surgery you're not able to eat enough calories, so your body goes into starvation mode and breaks down your muscle before your fat stores. I was just wondering how true that was, if anyone knows.
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Synicalchick
Distinguished Member
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Posted: 20 December 2010 03:05 am |
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| I can tell you 1st had for the gastric banding (can't speak for the other more drastic procedures) that is not true.
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